Production and Verses: The conjoined twins of hiphop
Production and Verses: The conjoined twins of hiphop
Asking a few friends questions about production and rap verses
Every week, in my rap group chat, there’s a new topic that leads us to arguing for days. Top 5s? Best producers? greatest hook writers? 50 Cent’s best verse? Who had the better verse on I Love The Dough? Does Drake have more classics than Justin Timberlake (answer is no!)? Can we count Beyonce as a rapper? Is Nicki Minaj technically better than Lil Kim? Does 3 Stacks qualify for top 5 convos without the deep solo catalog? Is T.I. better than Jeezy? But last week, we were arguing about who had the best verse on “Down Bad” and man, people were ready to throw hands over the topic (JID had the best verse by the way). As this argument was happening during the course of the week, I was completely drowned by a question I couldn’t find just one answer to, what production in hiphop had me blown away? Now this question could go so many different ways but for the most part, hiphop consumers consider production as the beat and the construction of it. That narrows down the scope of my search a bit but I still had a haystack to find this needle in. I started binge listening to all the rap records I loved, to find an answer to this question I had plagued myself with and still couldn’t settle on just one thing. It even led me to a short thread on twitter about production for Little Simz’s 101FM and how crazy Inflo works that sample. I wrote about Little Simz and Inflo’s relationship that shows up in her album Sometimes I Might Be Introvert here on Medium, check it out when you can (shameless plug).
I reached out to a few friends of mine and decided to get what they think. Below are the answers to the 2 questions of the week from some of my favorite hip hop consumers;
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
I’ll tell you mine at the end.
Tsewone M. (West coast rap connoisseur, brilliant mind, painter)
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
Amphetamine (prod. by Phoelix, J.Robb & monte booker) — Honestly the whole blkswn album but if I had to pick a song, Amphetamine by Smino. It sounds like 3 songs in one and is just so poetic and each feature puts the artist and at center stage in such a beautiful way
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
When I Come Around (Dom Kennedy) — This is actually pretty tough. I will have to say When I Come Around by Dom Kennedy
Hibz M. (the bar for cool, marketing legend, UK rap lover)
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
Runaway (prod. by Kanye West) — The nostalgia from when I first heard the song & the face I made when I heard the piano keys. It was soulful and smooth. I have such a love for MBDTF as a project. When Devil In A New Dress transitions to Runaway I felt like that SpongeBob meme where he’s levitating while listening to music 😂
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
Peligro (Dave’s verse) — Grass is green, the sky is blue, & Dave’s verse on Peligro is the best verse hands down. That Dave verse is legendary. The fact that this was a feature for him is even crazier lol. I love Dave and would love to hear this verse live one day. Every time I hear that verse it just gets better.
Erica W. (southern music defender, mother, friend)
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
What You Know (prod. by DJ Toomp) — This is one of those songs that never gets old for me. Listening to it now feels just as good as it did in 06. The track was shopped around to several rappers including Jeezy but he ended up sick and couldn’t record. I’ve never been so happy somebody had strep.
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
Int’l Players Anthem (Bun B’s verse) — Bun B’s verse on Int’l Players Anthem isn’t talked about enough for me. Andre 3000 went crazy but Bun B is direct. Ladies love a guy that doesn’t beat around the bush. It’s a perfect hood love story.
Anya T. (NY through and through, world traveler)
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
Gotta Have It (prod. by The Neptunes) — Personally I can’t speak about production in hip hop without mentioning Pharrell. You can hear an intro & go “this is Pharrell”. “Gotta Have It” is my fav cause it never gets old, you can play just the instrumental and be lit. He is a chosen one & I will die on this hill.
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
U Don’t Know (all of it) — I was raised by a Black man from NYC & I cannot hear “U Don’t Know” without getting goosebumps. Put me anywhere on God’s green earth, I’ll triple my worth… hello?
Michael M. (writer, marketing mastermind, cool person)
Check out Michael’s substack, Short Slides
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
Murder to Excellence (prod. by S1 & Swizz Beatz) — My favorite production on a song will probably always be “Murder to Excellence” from Watch The Throne. Everything about the sample and the beat are custom fit to Jay and Ye. And then they top it by flipping the same sample again halfway through! That song always stood out to me as a highlight on an album full of incredible moments.
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
Hive (Vince Staple verse) — The entirety of “Hive” by Earl Sweatshirt is one big stank face. Lyrically, the dense word combinations and flows that Earl plays with are phenomenal. But as far as mic drops go, it’s hard to argue against that final Vince verse. It’s simultaneously complex, menacing, and funny without feeling overdone. In other words, all the things that make Staples one of the best rappers out right now.
The Writing Boys (Alex, Cole, Julius & Koku)
Alex L. (writer, interrogator of new and old ideas, beautiful individual)
Check out and subscribe to Alex’s substack, Feels Like Home.
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
Lord Pretty Flacko Jodye 2 (LPFJ2) (prod. by Nez & Rio) — I remember watching A$AP Rocky’s “Multiply” music video for the first time and being blown away by the visuals, but the moment that still sticks with me is, a little over halfway through the song, when the opening synth for “Lord Pretty Flacko Jodye 2” starts playing. Its high-pitched tone immediately makes you feel like something big is coming. In the music video, the camera cuts away from Rocky and breaks into 30 seconds of Three 6 Mafia’s Juicy J dancing to a snippet of “LPFJ2.” He looked so carefree, and I wanted the full song after hearing only the first few seconds of the beat. Produced by Nez & Rio, who also made “Man of tHe Year” from ScHoolboy Q’s Oxymoron album, “LPFJ2” gets Rocky at his best and brings out the best in its listeners too. You feel like you can do anything with that beat beneath your wings. Shit, Juicy J thought he could dance.
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
BM J.R. (opening verse) — When talking about Lil Wayne, he has so many impressive verses that it almost feels like a copout. But the verse I think gets lost in the scrum and I will fight for as one of Wayne’s perfect verses is his opening verse on “BM J.R.” from his first album in Tha Carter series. The title is an acronym for his nickname “Birdman Jr.,” which references Wayne’s relationship with Birdman and sets the stage for Birdman encouraging his “adopted” son’s depravity throughout the song. There are too many bars to shout out, but I think one of Wayne’s gifts is being able to say the most lethal threats in unthreatening ways.
Niggas know I go hard to the fullest / Get involved and I got ’em playing dodgeball with bullets
And when we hungry, you look like pie / Sweet potato-ass nigga, you lemon meringue, apple custard / Cherry jelly, don’t make me get the biscuit, buster
It’s so clever you can’t help but laugh — and by the time you realize what he’s actually saying, it’s too late. You’re done.
“BM J.R.” perfectly captures Lil Wayne’s hunger at a time when he wanted people to start seeing him as “the best rapper alive since the best rapper retired,” referencing Jay-Z’s retirement from rap in 2003. You couldn’t tell me anyone was better than Wayne after hearing that first verse.
Cole H. (a voice that cuts through in writing)
Check out Cole’s writing here on Medium
What production on a hip-hop song blew you away?
I Ain’t Got Time (prod. by Tyler the Creator) — Tyler Okonma, has been my favorite artist for at least over a decade, and since he self-produces his entire catalogue — scarcely collaborating with others like a Pharrell or Jay Versace to name a few — Tyler is my favorite producer as well. His Magnus Opus is Igor, but I noticed a shift with his production style on Flower Boy. He really honed in on crafting his music like scores and thought more like a composer. He became a master at blending loops, turning break beats into something almost operatic. The song that slapped me with this realization was “Ain’t Got Time”. His clever way of clueing in listeners to the Dee-Lite, “Groove Is In The Heart” sample in the beginning, to the way he uses his body as an instrument with his clapping, was inventive. He still kept it hip-hop, but it was elevated. Even the way he uses his voice as an extra instrument is very prevalent, with him overlaying “Tik-Tok” throughout the track, it was ingenious. I think in this song specifically we hear him laying the groundwork to use his unfiltered voice even more in his work as we notice this in Igor with all of the breath-work he includes on the tracks.
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
Oldie (Frank Ocean verse) — There are so many important verses in the history of hip-hop, and I must admit, I’m not much of a fighter when it comes to the culture. We’re oversaturated with opinions, plus there’s enough healthy scraps for everyone that we don’t need to fight. But I might put up a scrap over who had the best verse on “Oldie” , the infamous Odd Future cypher that appears on Odd Future tape Vol. 2. For me, it’s Frank Ocean. His stoic flow paired with a deep tongue in cheek double entendre pleasantly surprised me when I first heard the track. Frank could flow.
Julius T. (beautiful musician, writer)
Check out Julius’ music on Spotify, Tidal & Apple Music
What production on a hip-hop song blew you away?
I was sad last night I’m ok now (prod. by Kristopher Castro, Karlton Sellers, tobi lou, LEJKEYS, Glassface & Noah Beresin) — This is a perfectly balanced beat. The simplicity matched with the perfect use of space has always impressed me. The chunky synth bass anchors the incredibly loopy synth that makes you understand Tobi’s emotions when you are sad. You feel like you could be walking with boulders attached to your feet while your head swimming with thoughts of self-doubt. As a producer myself I understand the genuine pull of complicating a beat. It’s always genius to me when a beat can be impactful with only 3 or 4 components.
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
Luchini (Camp Lo) — Ok, hear me out. Think about Camp Lo introducing themselves with “Lucchini — This is it”. The Bronx duo, Sonny Cheeba and Geechi Suede introduce themselves to the world as blaxploitation film characters. I expect to dap these dudes up and be impressed by the smell of cocoa butter and cigar smoke while admiring their pinky rings and suits as they poor me a fine whisky. The most impressive thing is they bounce back and forth in character that doesn’t feel corny. It feels revolutionary. BFFs use their imagination to write a complex movie script that they lay out in front of you so simply.
Koku A. (hilarious podcaster, writer, producer)
What production on a hip-hop song blew you away?
Don’t Cry (prod. by J Dilla) — When I think of production, my mind automatically leaps to J.Dilla. I don’t remember the first time I heard him outside of Slum Village, but he has had an everlasting effect on me. Dilla’s production style was made popular by his unquantized drum patterns and masterful skills at chopping up samples. Dilla could take a sample and morph the listener’s perception of what the sample was saying. For example, on the Slum Village track ‘Players,’ he samples ‘Clair’ by The Singers Unlimited, the mid-70s Jazz group, clearly says the name ‘Clair’ in their song. But Dilla primes the listeners with the song title and stretches the sample so that it sounds like ‘Players.’ I am awed at his ability to speak so much through a sample without even rapping on it. He does this perfectly on one of my favorite songs by him called ‘Don’t Cry.’ The song was on his final studio album before he passed ‘Donuts.’ While fighting thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura (TTP) and lupus, Dilla crafted this album under extreme pain. During this time, his mother would visit, and to quell her worries, he made this song. You can feel the message Dilla is conveying through the song. The track starts with a cavalcade of sounds, vocal chops, scratches, and drums. Symbolizing this disarray and confusion that his mother may be feeling, it then softly transitions to the main sample of ‘I Can’t Stand (To See You Cry)’ by The Escorts, accompanied by a vocal sample from a comedy routing done by The Temptations called “Hello Young Lovers / Cloud Nine / if I Didn’t Care.” What then happens is a beautiful arrangement of vocal chops and drum patterns. It’s a bitter-sweet feeling because at the time of writing this, Dilla’s 50th birthday just passed, and back then, this was just a way for him to talk to his mother and say, ‘Don’t worry, everything is going to be alright.’ Not knowing this song would ultimately extend past his mother and reach the ears and hearts of listeners worldwide.
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
Rigamortis (Kendrick 3rd verse) — A rap verse that deserves all the praise is Kendrick’s third verse on ‘Rigamortis’, and It is probably the most potent display of lyrical gymnastics. The fact you can hear him rap with fatigue because he is losing breath as the verse keeps going is something I wish he would do again. I would try to find videos of him performing ‘Rigamortis’ Live but apparently he doesn’t do the third verse live because of how strenuous it is. This was the song that made a Kendrick fan and writing about it does it no justice. You have to listen to it to see how hungry he was when he first got signed to Top Dawg.
Mike M. (Best playlister in the game, women basketball defender, meme collector)
Check out Mike’s weekly playlist “This Week In Jams”
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
Int’l Players Anthem (prod. by DJ Paul & Juicy J) — in an era where the youth are ruining the sacred art of sampling, let this song be the North Star to bring them back home. There may be no better example of honoring and elevating a soul classic than int’l players anthem.
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
22 Two’s (all of it) — While hindsight highlights a couple cringe lyrics in this song, it also clearly predicts the preternatural rapping, unparalleled storytelling and global superstar Jay-Z would become today.
Nate K. (legend in 2 sports like Bo, photographer, tastemaker)
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
Double 07 (prod. by Alchemist) — This was the first time I was put onto Alchemist production. This was during the era when we were downloading mixtapes off Datpiff and hotnewhiphop. I remember hearing when the beat dropped on this song and it just took me to another universe.
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
Money Trees (Jay Rock’s verse) — To me, this is a perfect example of incredible storytelling without needing to be overly lyrical. Through Jay Rock’s tone, flow, and blunt descriptions of life, you can feel the realness in his words.
Jordan S. (beautiful soul, photographer, dot connector)
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
Won’t Do (prod. by J. Dilla) — J Dilla’s catalog/body of work speaks for itself, honestly. the impact he’s had on hip hop has and will always stand the test of time — I guarantee you he’s your favorite artist’s favorite too. Detroit’s finest, and hip hop’s finest, J Dilla is required listening for so many reasons that I can’t summarize.
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
All Caps x MF DOOM — MF DOOM’s wordplay and delivery on this song is littered with double entendres and alliterations that I’ve come to appreciate the older I’ve gotten. He’s an artist whose songs you listen to and will never get tired of because often times, you’ll catch a reference you may not have caught the last time you listened to it… All Caps is quintessential DOOM at his best.
Jason W. (podcaster, music lover, conversational interrogator of ideas)
Check out Jason’s movie podcaster, Was It Good Tho?
Jason has the same answer to both questions.
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
Japanese Soul Bar (by Nas prod. by HitBoy) — 6 albums in how many years? Nas, while I don’t think he’s concerned with Hov’s thoughts 20 years later, shows us why he is still a God MC and the petty jab is peak Goku and Freiza. Hit and Nas have found something special. The way Hit chops up “Japanese soul Bar “ to the way Nas laces it is just Mafioso raps at its best. The beat switch , the flow switch at :59 is immaculate.
No dry eyes in the theater, the viewers are living through me
Michael A. (Lil Wayne defender, all-around intellectual, beautiful soul)
Michael was very busy and unable to give us a full blurb but below are his picks.
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
Runaway (prod. by Kanye West)
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
Dead President Heads (Royce Da 5’9”)
Paché A. (true Chicagoan, popular man, photographer, R&B lover)
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
No Role Modelz — I kind of have a two part answer. College dropout changed how I viewed production for music as a kid who grew up in the gangsta era. The record that sticks out in my my mind is No Role Modelz and how Cole is just like I hear birds on a record and him Phonix go through thousands of bird sounds
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
03 Adolescence — The whole thing from start to finish
Here’s what I picked below. If you made it this far…wow!
What production on a hiphop song had you blown away?
Heart Attack (prod. by Dave, Kyle Evans, James Blake & Dom Maker) — Production is such a tricky thing to explain because obviously the beat is production but the little switches and decisions are what blow my mind! The production I’m picking is Heart Attack by Dave. Now yeah, the production isn’t necessarily mind blowing from a beat perspective, it’s just a piano, a guitar, an electronic guitar and then drums at roughly the 2 minute mark. The arrangement isn’t that particularly special but when the song starts, Dave sound designs with sounds of emergency cars and an audio from the news. You’re immediately sucked into the world Dave’s rapping about. The world of young Black south Londoners who most of the time are just faced with a life of crime and postcode wars they didn’t even start. What is actually mind blowing about this production comes in at the 4 minute 30 second mark (this song is mad long, 9:55), Dave brings in a choir till the 5 minute 45 second mark, just 1 minute and 15 seconds of a choir and that just BLOWS MY MIND! Why that amount of time? Why is everything stripped away to just the piano and percussion at that part of the song? Seriously Dave, QTNA!
What rap verse is so impressive that you would fight about it no matter what?
In The Fire (Ghetts verse) — The verse I’m picking is actually from the same album Heart Attack is on, We’re All Alone In This Together. But before we get to it, here are some honorable mentions from recent times;
I made a playlist for the features from 2022 which was fun to revisit during the research for this.
Now back to the pick, my answer is actually Ghetts’ verse on In the Fire. The song samples Florida Mass Choir’s 1982 song “Have You Been Tried In The Fire.” It was performed live as the closer of the 2022 BRIT Awards which featured all four surprise features, with UK artist Konyikeh performing the sample, as well as Dave’s first ever guitar performance in front of an audience in which he showcased his newfound talent of playing, both acoustic and electric guitars.
Ghetts’ verse is the 3rd after Fredo and Meekz opened up the record respectively. I really don’t know how to explain the verse other than the image below.
Here are a few bars that just had me shaking my head impressed;
Fire burnin’ while I’m watchin’, higher learnin’
Guns bustin’, tyres turnin’, that’s a Russian and a German (Yes)
That’s your phone ringin’, you can hear the beep
You won’t be saved by the bell when you hear the screech
In it so deep, open, ocean
There’s man escapin’ some shells they can barely see
I’m diggin’ deep with this tool like I’m known for plumbin’
Somethin’ in your chest like it’s Robitussin
Word to arsonist, I burn all this
I stood in front of all three dragons and heard “Dracarys”
And now we’re jumpin’ out G-Wagons and murkin’ parties
Man are comin’ out with these bangers and dirty dancin’
Nobody puts baby in a corner
I uplift my girl like I’m Swayze in the water
And if it’s already written, maybe I’m the author, so accustomed
To the fire, I get shivers when I’m naked in the sauna, how
I’m focused, I don’t need to burn the kush
This is Moses speakin’ to the burnin’ bush (Yeah)
I stood in front of the fire and learned to cook
Finished my verse and never heard a hook
And the fact that the verse ends and goes straight into Giggs’ verse is just chef’s kiss!
Dead Presidents 1 (2nd verse) — Now it wouldn’t be a Nate piece if I didn’t break the rule and include a second pick, and that pick is Jay Z’s beef-starter Dead Presidents 1. I think most people are more familiar with Dead Presidents 2 which is what’s on Reasonable Doubt but DP1 is just so special. The song features a sample of Lonnie Smith’s A Garden of Peace and Nas’ voice chopped up to make the hook (this allegedly was the thing that started their beef).
That second verse is so special man; advice, a prophecy for how RICOs will be used against future artists and how they need to prepare and leave crime alone (very funny coming from a guy who’s still allegedly spending drug money from ‘88)! Just another brilliant display and evidence that “There’s a Hov verse for everything”.
There’s heaven, then there’s hell, niggas
One day you’re cruisin’ in your 7, next day, you’re sweatin’, forgettin’ your lies
Alibis ain’t matchin’ up, bullshit catchin’ up
Hit with the RICO, they repo your vehicle
Everything was all good just a week ago
‘Bout to start bitchin’, ain’t you? Ready to start snitchin’, ain’t you?
I’ll forgive your weak-ass: hustlin’ just ain’t you
Aside from the fast cars, honies that shake they ass at bars
You know you wouldn’t be involved
With the underworld dealers, carriers of MAC-millers
East Coast bodiers, West Coast cap-peelers
Little monkey niggas turn gorillas
Stopped in the station, filled up on octane, and now they not sane
And not playin’, that goes without sayin’
Slayin’ day in and day out, when money play in, then they play you out
Tryin’ to escape my own mind, lurkin’ the enemy
Representin’ infinity with presidencies, you know?
Was blessed to be a part of this ❤️
The playlists 😮💨😮💨 thank you again for having us!